kicked for opinion

[Joe Jameson]

idk I feel like a country doing a genocide shouldn't exist

Gaza genocide - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

2024 Lebanon electronic device attacks - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Nearly 70 percent of deaths in Gaza are women and children: UN

Overall, 44 percent of the victims were children; the youngest was a day-old boy and the oldest was a 97-year-old woman.

www.aljazeera.com

UN: Over 80% of Gaza’s buildings destroyed

More than 80 per cent of buildings in the Gaza Strip have been destroyed, a UN official has stated. In an interview with Al Qahera News yesterday, Assistant Secretary-General of...

www.middleeastmonitor.com

Aid entering Gaza is lowest in months, says Unrwa, as US deadline approaches – Middle East crisis, as it happened

US had warned Israel a month ago that it had just 30 days to address humanitarian crisis

www.theguardian.com

Israel's apartheid against Palestinians

Palestinians are systematically subjected to home demolitions and forced evictions, and live in constant fear of losing their homes. For more than 73 years, Israel has been forcibly displacing entire Palestinian communities. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians’ homes have been demolished...

www.amnesty.org

Israeli apartheid - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

People come on KC supporting Trump all the time and they are allowed to say what's on their mind even though Trump has said a bunch of racist **** against Latinos. But I guess when someone says "I want Israel to not exist, we should replace it with a secular democratic state which treats all its citizens as equal" that's worse?

 

[Joe Jameson]

Also kick message has no reason provided, pretty sure that breaks procedure?

 

[Joe Jameson]

It's simply not my fault you interpreted something as straightforward as "I don't think the country doing a genocide should exist" as hateful or inflammatory

 

[Joe Jameson]

Username is Kári

I wasn't kicked for saying "Hamas should be destroyed" so why the double standard?

 

[MavieWavie]

Hi there, I'm the mod who kicked you, I want to start by saying I have no opinion about the current real world situation going on right now, and that not once have I EVER supported either side of the political landscape, and I am not a "Trump supporter". I would also like to state that you did not say "I think a country that does genocide should not exist" nor did you state "I want Israel to not exist, we should replace it with a secular democratic state which treats all its citizens as equal" at the time, you made that statement AFTER being kicked and we're not kicked for making that statement. As for your point that you were not kicked for saying "Hamas should not exist" I was simply not online/not modding at the time, so I didn't see it. What happened here was I saw a user state they wanted a country to not exist, which I have been told xenophobia is against the rules as per Luminous, so I kicked under our anti-harrasment and racism rule, which xenophobia falls under, if you had stated "I want Israel to not exist, we should replace it with a secular democratic state which treats all its citizens as equal" I would not have kicked. I hope this clears up any confusion on the matter.

 

[MavieWavie]

I would also like to add that I have had verification of the kicks legitimacy by two other staff members, one at the time of the kick and another at a later date because I was starting to question myself. They have both confirmed it was a valid kick.

(Also I would like to add I am the moderator "Inv4lid" for clarification, I forgot my forums username was not similar at all.)

 

[Joe Jameson]

Hi there, I'm the mod who kicked you, I want to start by saying I have no opinion about the current real world situation going on right now, and that not once have I EVER supported either side of the political landscape, and I am not a "Trump supporter". I would also like to state that you did not say "I think a country that does genocide should not exist" nor did you state "I want Israel to not exist, we should replace it with a secular democratic state which treats all its citizens as equal" at the time, you made that statement AFTER being kicked and we're not kicked for making that statement. As for your point that you were not kicked for saying "Hamas should not exist" I was simply not online/not modding at the time, so I didn't see it. What happened here was I saw a user state they wanted a country to not exist, which I have been told xenophobia is against the rules as per Luminous, so I kicked under our anti-harrasment and racism rule, which xenophobia falls under, if you had stated "I want Israel to not exist, we should replace it with a secular democratic state which treats all its citizens as equal" I would not have kicked. I hope this clears up any confusion on the matter.

Thanks for the quick response. I hope the original message wasn't too passive-aggressive because at the time I was being unfairly targeted by a mod and by the virtue of how the kick system works I had no idea who kicked me and I assumed it was the aforementioned mod. I honestly expected a more vitriolic defense of Israel and accusations of anti-Semitism being thrown around.

I never contended that the message could be interpreted in a xenophobic sense.
(check tl;dr at the bottom to skip all of this)

To clarify the message further, dismantling specifically refers to government structures and not the people of Israel themselves, I am not stupid and have experienced xenophobia first hand on account of being an immigrant from another country currently doing a genocide.

I am not gonna argue semantics on this, but generally xenophobia is defined as an aversion towards a group of people or a culture from outside the country and not another nation state (like the government). Like it wouldn't be xenophobic to say "the USA shouldn't exist" but it would be xenophobic to say "Americans shouldn't exist". The country isn't the people, no one talked about hatred towards the people.

The next message after that was talking about how Jewish diaspora which Israel purports to be the "Homeland" of (which generally has negative views of Israel and does not support Israel trying to act as the sole representative of the group on account of the whole genocide) ought not to let its culture be associated with that of a rogue genocidal state which I think does clarify that I wasn't talking about Israelis (since every Jew gets free Israeli citizenship and aliyah and Israel is constituted as a Jewish state)

Tl;dr: it's just a difference in perspective, my reality is that I was talking about the country not the people and your reality is that I was talking about the people not the country. I don't really care about the kick now since you clarified it wasn't about me being anti-israel.

Anyway thanks for not being a freak abt it :3

 

[MavieWavie]

Thanks for the quick response. I hope the original message wasn't too passive-aggressive because at the time I was being unfairly targeted by a mod and by the virtue of how the kick system works I had no idea who kicked me and I assumed it was the aforementioned mod. I honestly expected a more vitriolic defense of Israel and accusations of anti-Semitism being thrown around.

I never contended that the message could be interpreted in a xenophobic sense.
(check tl;dr at the bottom to skip all of this)

To clarify the message further, dismantling specifically refers to government structures and not the people of Israel themselves, I am not stupid and have experienced xenophobia first hand on account of being an immigrant from another country currently doing a genocide.

I am not gonna argue semantics on this, but generally xenophobia is defined as an aversion towards a group of people or a culture from outside the country and not another nation state (like the government). Like it wouldn't be xenophobic to say "the USA shouldn't exist" but it would be xenophobic to say "Americans shouldn't exist". The country isn't the people, no one talked about hatred towards the people.

The next message after that was talking about how Jewish diaspora which Israel purports to be the "Homeland" of (which generally has negative views of Israel and does not support Israel trying to act as the sole representative of the group on account of the whole genocide) ought not to let its culture be associated with that of a rogue genocidal state which I think does clarify that I wasn't talking about Israelis (since every Jew gets free Israeli citizenship and aliyah and Israel is constituted as a Jewish state)

Tl;dr: it's just a difference in perspective, my reality is that I was talking about the country not the people and your reality is that I was talking about the people not the country. I don't really care about the kick now since you clarified it wasn't about me being anti-israel.

Anyway thanks for not being a freak abt it :3

Not a problem, I'm glad this could be talked out rationally with no ill will towards either party, I imagine Lumi will close this thread soon. Thank you again for understanding and clarifying your statement.